[vtk-developers] Modularization, Context2D and Tcl

Wed Mar 28 11:04:36 EDT 2012

This may be a bigger issue than just the ARB, I'm wondering if we should
ask the question across the broader community, and/or create an explicit
transition plan.
W

On Wed, Mar 28, 2012 at 9:53 AM, Wes Turner <wes.turner at kitware.com> wrote:

> Changing a few interfaces is manageable.  Removing support for the entire
> GUI system is much more catastrophic.  If this were a democracy I would
> stage a filibuster and force a super-majority.  :-)
>
> As it is, I will happily abide by any decision by the ARB, but I strongly
> urge that they make an explicit decision and announce it, rather than just
> do it by default or allow support to erode away.
>
> - Wes
>
>
> On Wed, Mar 28, 2012 at 7:51 AM, David Cole <david.cole at kitware.com>wrote:
>
>> I'm not saying that applications like this shouldn't upgrade. On the
>> contrary, I think they should, and I think they should do it soon, and give
>> us feedback on the new layout of modular VTK, and on the rest of the
>> changes (legacy code removal), ... other changes?
>>
>> I am saying we're making a bunch of changes anyhow, and applications are
>> going to have to make lots of changes to adapt to them anyhow... and
>> because of this, now is the perfect opportunity to make breaking changes,
>> so that apps that need to adapt only need to do it once, and then we
>> position VTK for better things in the future. (Specifically, a C++
>> namespace and potential for more modern wrapped languages.)
>>
>> Tcl wrapping, even if removed from VTK itself, could be done in a
>> separate project, from the outside, after the fact. That's how ActiViz
>> works for C# wrapping: which is another thing that will have to adapt to
>> this new VTK if it wants to survive. To the best of my knowledge, nobody
>> has spent any effort making sure ActiViz is still going to work flawlessly
>> with the new VTK. That'll be something for somebody's to do list after the
>> dust settles here.
>>
>> This is the one chance we'll have in the next decade to break backwards
>> compatibility: we should take it while we have it.
>>
>>
>> David C.
>>
>>
>> On Mar 28, 2012, at 6:09 AM, Karthik Krishnan <
>> karthik.krishnan at kitware.com> wrote:
>>
>> I agree with Wes. Again, not to be too vocal....
>>
>> I don't vote for  vtk3DWidget being renamed. Despite it being an old
>> generation widgets that we don't recommend folks derive from, but the fact
>> remains that there are a few widgets in VTK that derive from it. There are
>> a lot of widgets in Slicer (<20) and VolView (>10) that derive from it.
>> These are examples from just 2 applications.
>>
>> I don't support Tcl wrapping being dropped. There are still a lot of apps
>> under active development out there relying on VTK being wrappable from Tcl
>> (BioImageSuite, VolView, SCIRun, MIPS to name a few). It hasn't been long
>> since Slicer made the switch either.
>>
>> These are all large applications, with a large user base and important
>> customers of VTK. Don't you think a stand that: "If these applications want
>> to continue using VTK, they shouldn't upgrade" is a bit harsh.
>>
>> thx
>> --
>> karthik
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Mar 28, 2012 at 1:47 AM, David E DeMarle <
>> dave.demarle at kitware.com> wrote:
>>
>>> And I _will_ add text to the download page to make it clear what that
>>> binary is because you are entirely right that it shouldn't be the
>>> first thing newbies try.
>>>
>>> David E DeMarle
>>> Kitware, Inc.
>>> R&D Engineer
>>> 21 Corporate Drive
>>> Clifton Park, NY 12065-8662
>>> Phone: 518-881-4909
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Mar 27, 2012 at 4:12 PM, David E DeMarle
>>> <dave.demarle at kitware.com> wrote:
>>> > That is an old school 32bit windows tcl interpreter with the tcl
>>> > wrapped vtk libs preloaded. Use it by typing in vtk tcl scripts there,
>>> > or just pass tcl scripts as filenames to that executable to run them
>>> > without the shell. (Back when I was a young lad, and when Will and
>>> > Bill were still old men, that was the _easy_ way to learn VTK. Ah
>>> > those were the days, even if we did have to walk five miles in the
>>> > snow to get to grad school.)
>>> >
>>> > My plan for this release is to keep it the same as before. I hope to
>>> > find the time to make and post the vtkpython equivalent of that
>>> > executable for mac, linux and windows, but I am not going to hold up
>>> > the release release for them.
>>> >
>>> > For 6.0 we at least want the python exes, will probably drop the tcl
>>> > exe, and will try to make a proper SDK so that you don't need to
>>> > compile vtk to make c++ apps that use it.
>>> >
>>> > David E DeMarle
>>> > Kitware, Inc.
>>> > R&D Engineer
>>> > 21 Corporate Drive
>>> > Clifton Park, NY 12065-8662
>>> > Phone: 518-881-4909
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > On Tue, Mar 27, 2012 at 3:45 PM, David Doria <daviddoria at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> >> On a related note, every Windows user I have suggested VTK to has gone
>>> >> to this page:
>>> >> http://vtk.org/VTK/resources/software.html#latest2
>>> >>
>>> >> and been extremely confused about what they get with the "Windows
>>> >> (Installer) : vtk-5.8.0-win32-x86.exe". I just downloaded and
>>> >> installed it on a Windows machine, and when I run "VTK" from the start
>>> >> menu (the only thing that appears to be an option), I get a blank
>>> >> terminal window and a blank gray widget with no further
>>> >> instructions/explanation - indeed very confusing!
>>> >>
>>> >> My understanding is that this is some sort of TCL-only binary package?
>>> >> My suggestion would be to remove this from the download page entirely,
>>> >> or at least bury it so it is not the first thing you see and so it
>>> >> doesn't look like what you should download as a new user. It should be
>>> >> immediately clear that VTK is intended to be used as a library, not a
>>> >> standalone application.
>>> >>
>>> >> David
>>> >> _______________________________________________
>>> >> Powered by www.kitware.com
>>> >>
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>>> >>
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>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> --
>> karthik
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>>
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>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Wesley D. Turner, Ph.D.
> Kitware, Inc.
> Technical Leader
> 28 Corporate Drive
> Clifton Park, NY 12065-8662
> Phone: 518-881-4920
>
> _______________________________________________
> Powered by www.kitware.com
>
> Visit other Kitware open-source projects at
> http://www.kitware.com/opensource/opensource.html
>
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>
>
>

-- 
William J. Schroeder, PhD
Kitware, Inc.
28 Corporate Drive
Clifton Park, NY 12065
will.schroeder at kitware.com
http://www.kitware.com
(518) 881-4902
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