[vtk-developers] Modularization, Context2D and Tcl
wes.turner at kitware.com
Wed Mar 28 09:53:23 EDT 2012
Changing a few interfaces is manageable. Removing support for the entire
GUI system is much more catastrophic. If this were a democracy I would
stage a filibuster and force a super-majority. :-)
As it is, I will happily abide by any decision by the ARB, but I strongly
urge that they make an explicit decision and announce it, rather than just
do it by default or allow support to erode away.
On Wed, Mar 28, 2012 at 7:51 AM, David Cole <david.cole at kitware.com> wrote:
> I'm not saying that applications like this shouldn't upgrade. On the
> contrary, I think they should, and I think they should do it soon, and give
> us feedback on the new layout of modular VTK, and on the rest of the
> changes (legacy code removal), ... other changes?
> I am saying we're making a bunch of changes anyhow, and applications are
> going to have to make lots of changes to adapt to them anyhow... and
> because of this, now is the perfect opportunity to make breaking changes,
> so that apps that need to adapt only need to do it once, and then we
> position VTK for better things in the future. (Specifically, a C++
> namespace and potential for more modern wrapped languages.)
> Tcl wrapping, even if removed from VTK itself, could be done in a separate
> project, from the outside, after the fact. That's how ActiViz works for C#
> wrapping: which is another thing that will have to adapt to this new VTK if
> it wants to survive. To the best of my knowledge, nobody has spent any
> effort making sure ActiViz is still going to work flawlessly with the new
> VTK. That'll be something for somebody's to do list after the dust settles
> This is the one chance we'll have in the next decade to break backwards
> compatibility: we should take it while we have it.
> David C.
> On Mar 28, 2012, at 6:09 AM, Karthik Krishnan <
> karthik.krishnan at kitware.com> wrote:
> I agree with Wes. Again, not to be too vocal....
> I don't vote for vtk3DWidget being renamed. Despite it being an old
> generation widgets that we don't recommend folks derive from, but the fact
> remains that there are a few widgets in VTK that derive from it. There are
> a lot of widgets in Slicer (<20) and VolView (>10) that derive from it.
> These are examples from just 2 applications.
> I don't support Tcl wrapping being dropped. There are still a lot of apps
> under active development out there relying on VTK being wrappable from Tcl
> (BioImageSuite, VolView, SCIRun, MIPS to name a few). It hasn't been long
> since Slicer made the switch either.
> These are all large applications, with a large user base and important
> customers of VTK. Don't you think a stand that: "If these applications want
> to continue using VTK, they shouldn't upgrade" is a bit harsh.
> On Wed, Mar 28, 2012 at 1:47 AM, David E DeMarle <dave.demarle at kitware.com
> > wrote:
>> And I _will_ add text to the download page to make it clear what that
>> binary is because you are entirely right that it shouldn't be the
>> first thing newbies try.
>> David E DeMarle
>> Kitware, Inc.
>> R&D Engineer
>> 21 Corporate Drive
>> Clifton Park, NY 12065-8662
>> Phone: 518-881-4909
>> On Tue, Mar 27, 2012 at 4:12 PM, David E DeMarle
>> <dave.demarle at kitware.com> wrote:
>> > That is an old school 32bit windows tcl interpreter with the tcl
>> > wrapped vtk libs preloaded. Use it by typing in vtk tcl scripts there,
>> > or just pass tcl scripts as filenames to that executable to run them
>> > without the shell. (Back when I was a young lad, and when Will and
>> > Bill were still old men, that was the _easy_ way to learn VTK. Ah
>> > those were the days, even if we did have to walk five miles in the
>> > snow to get to grad school.)
>> > My plan for this release is to keep it the same as before. I hope to
>> > find the time to make and post the vtkpython equivalent of that
>> > executable for mac, linux and windows, but I am not going to hold up
>> > the release release for them.
>> > For 6.0 we at least want the python exes, will probably drop the tcl
>> > exe, and will try to make a proper SDK so that you don't need to
>> > compile vtk to make c++ apps that use it.
>> > David E DeMarle
>> > Kitware, Inc.
>> > R&D Engineer
>> > 21 Corporate Drive
>> > Clifton Park, NY 12065-8662
>> > Phone: 518-881-4909
>> > On Tue, Mar 27, 2012 at 3:45 PM, David Doria <daviddoria at gmail.com>
>> >> On a related note, every Windows user I have suggested VTK to has gone
>> >> to this page:
>> >> http://vtk.org/VTK/resources/software.html#latest2
>> >> and been extremely confused about what they get with the "Windows
>> >> (Installer) : vtk-5.8.0-win32-x86.exe". I just downloaded and
>> >> installed it on a Windows machine, and when I run "VTK" from the start
>> >> menu (the only thing that appears to be an option), I get a blank
>> >> terminal window and a blank gray widget with no further
>> >> instructions/explanation - indeed very confusing!
>> >> My understanding is that this is some sort of TCL-only binary package?
>> >> My suggestion would be to remove this from the download page entirely,
>> >> or at least bury it so it is not the first thing you see and so it
>> >> doesn't look like what you should download as a new user. It should be
>> >> immediately clear that VTK is intended to be used as a library, not a
>> >> standalone application.
>> >> David
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Wesley D. Turner, Ph.D.
28 Corporate Drive
Clifton Park, NY 12065-8662
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