[vtk-developers] Modularization, Context2D and Tcl

Wed Mar 28 11:55:05 EDT 2012

I agree with Will. We should ask the community about the impact of a
VTK without tcl.

On Wed, Mar 28, 2012 at 8:04 AM, Will Schroeder
<will.schroeder at kitware.com> wrote:
> This may be a bigger issue than just the ARB, I'm wondering if we should ask
> the question across the broader community, and/or create an explicit
> transition plan.
> W
>
>
> On Wed, Mar 28, 2012 at 9:53 AM, Wes Turner <wes.turner at kitware.com> wrote:
>>
>> Changing a few interfaces is manageable.  Removing support for the entire
>> GUI system is much more catastrophic.  If this were a democracy I would
>> stage a filibuster and force a super-majority.  :-)
>>
>> As it is, I will happily abide by any decision by the ARB, but I strongly
>> urge that they make an explicit decision and announce it, rather than just
>> do it by default or allow support to erode away.
>>
>> - Wes
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Mar 28, 2012 at 7:51 AM, David Cole <david.cole at kitware.com>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> I'm not saying that applications like this shouldn't upgrade. On the
>>> contrary, I think they should, and I think they should do it soon, and give
>>> us feedback on the new layout of modular VTK, and on the rest of the changes
>>> (legacy code removal), ... other changes?
>>>
>>> I am saying we're making a bunch of changes anyhow, and applications are
>>> going to have to make lots of changes to adapt to them anyhow... and because
>>> of this, now is the perfect opportunity to make breaking changes, so that
>>> apps that need to adapt only need to do it once, and then we position VTK
>>> for better things in the future. (Specifically, a C++ namespace and
>>> potential for more modern wrapped languages.)
>>>
>>> Tcl wrapping, even if removed from VTK itself, could be done in a
>>> separate project, from the outside, after the fact. That's how ActiViz works
>>> for C# wrapping: which is another thing that will have to adapt to this new
>>> VTK if it wants to survive. To the best of my knowledge, nobody has spent
>>> any effort making sure ActiViz is still going to work flawlessly with the
>>> new VTK. That'll be something for somebody's to do list after the dust
>>> settles here.
>>>
>>> This is the one chance we'll have in the next decade to break backwards
>>> compatibility: we should take it while we have it.
>>>
>>>
>>> David C.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mar 28, 2012, at 6:09 AM, Karthik Krishnan
>>> <karthik.krishnan at kitware.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> I agree with Wes. Again, not to be too vocal....
>>>
>>> I don't vote for  vtk3DWidget being renamed. Despite it being an old
>>> generation widgets that we don't recommend folks derive from, but the fact
>>> remains that there are a few widgets in VTK that derive from it. There are a
>>> lot of widgets in Slicer (<20) and VolView (>10) that derive from it. These
>>> are examples from just 2 applications.
>>>
>>> I don't support Tcl wrapping being dropped. There are still a lot of apps
>>> under active development out there relying on VTK being wrappable from Tcl
>>> (BioImageSuite, VolView, SCIRun, MIPS to name a few). It hasn't been long
>>> since Slicer made the switch either.
>>>
>>> These are all large applications, with a large user base and important
>>> customers of VTK. Don't you think a stand that: "If these applications want
>>> to continue using VTK, they shouldn't upgrade" is a bit harsh.
>>>
>>> thx
>>> --
>>> karthik
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Mar 28, 2012 at 1:47 AM, David E DeMarle
>>> <dave.demarle at kitware.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> And I _will_ add text to the download page to make it clear what that
>>>> binary is because you are entirely right that it shouldn't be the
>>>> first thing newbies try.
>>>>
>>>> David E DeMarle
>>>> Kitware, Inc.
>>>> R&D Engineer
>>>> 21 Corporate Drive
>>>> Clifton Park, NY 12065-8662
>>>> Phone: 518-881-4909
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Mar 27, 2012 at 4:12 PM, David E DeMarle
>>>> <dave.demarle at kitware.com> wrote:
>>>> > That is an old school 32bit windows tcl interpreter with the tcl
>>>> > wrapped vtk libs preloaded. Use it by typing in vtk tcl scripts there,
>>>> > or just pass tcl scripts as filenames to that executable to run them
>>>> > without the shell. (Back when I was a young lad, and when Will and
>>>> > Bill were still old men, that was the _easy_ way to learn VTK. Ah
>>>> > those were the days, even if we did have to walk five miles in the
>>>> > snow to get to grad school.)
>>>> >
>>>> > My plan for this release is to keep it the same as before. I hope to
>>>> > find the time to make and post the vtkpython equivalent of that
>>>> > executable for mac, linux and windows, but I am not going to hold up
>>>> > the release release for them.
>>>> >
>>>> > For 6.0 we at least want the python exes, will probably drop the tcl
>>>> > exe, and will try to make a proper SDK so that you don't need to
>>>> > compile vtk to make c++ apps that use it.
>>>> >
>>>> > David E DeMarle
>>>> > Kitware, Inc.
>>>> > R&D Engineer
>>>> > 21 Corporate Drive
>>>> > Clifton Park, NY 12065-8662
>>>> > Phone: 518-881-4909
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > On Tue, Mar 27, 2012 at 3:45 PM, David Doria <daviddoria at gmail.com>
>>>> > wrote:
>>>> >> On a related note, every Windows user I have suggested VTK to has
>>>> >> gone
>>>> >> to this page:
>>>> >> http://vtk.org/VTK/resources/software.html#latest2
>>>> >>
>>>> >> and been extremely confused about what they get with the "Windows
>>>> >> (Installer) : vtk-5.8.0-win32-x86.exe". I just downloaded and
>>>> >> installed it on a Windows machine, and when I run "VTK" from the
>>>> >> start
>>>> >> menu (the only thing that appears to be an option), I get a blank
>>>> >> terminal window and a blank gray widget with no further
>>>> >> instructions/explanation - indeed very confusing!
>>>> >>
>>>> >> My understanding is that this is some sort of TCL-only binary
>>>> >> package?
>>>> >> My suggestion would be to remove this from the download page
>>>> >> entirely,
>>>> >> or at least bury it so it is not the first thing you see and so it
>>>> >> doesn't look like what you should download as a new user. It should
>>>> >> be
>>>> >> immediately clear that VTK is intended to be used as a library, not a
>>>> >> standalone application.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> David
>>>> >> _______________________________________________
>>>> >> Powered by www.kitware.com
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Visit other Kitware open-source projects at
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>>>> >>
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>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> --
>>> karthik
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Powered by www.kitware.com
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>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Wesley D. Turner, Ph.D.
>> Kitware, Inc.
>> Technical Leader
>> 28 Corporate Drive
>> Clifton Park, NY 12065-8662
>> Phone: 518-881-4920
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Powered by www.kitware.com
>>
>> Visit other Kitware open-source projects at
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>>
>>
>
>
>
> --
> William J. Schroeder, PhD
> Kitware, Inc.
> 28 Corporate Drive
>
> Clifton Park, NY 12065
> will.schroeder at kitware.com
> http://www.kitware.com
> (518) 881-4902
>
> _______________________________________________
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>
> Visit other Kitware open-source projects at
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>

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