[vtkusers] [vtk-developers] Modularization, Context2D and Tcl

Wed Mar 28 12:04:00 EDT 2012

In another email to Wes, I suggested the same. I have cc'd vtkuser's
mailing list as well ( to provide background on the topic, may be better to
start a new thread in the vtkusers mailing list).

On Wed, Mar 28, 2012 at 11:55 AM, Bill Lorensen <bill.lorensen at gmail.com>wrote:

> I agree with Will. We should ask the community about the impact of a
> VTK without tcl.
>
> On Wed, Mar 28, 2012 at 8:04 AM, Will Schroeder
> <will.schroeder at kitware.com> wrote:
> > This may be a bigger issue than just the ARB, I'm wondering if we should
> ask
> > the question across the broader community, and/or create an explicit
> > transition plan.
> > W
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Mar 28, 2012 at 9:53 AM, Wes Turner <wes.turner at kitware.com>
> wrote:
> >>
> >> Changing a few interfaces is manageable.  Removing support for the
> entire
> >> GUI system is much more catastrophic.  If this were a democracy I would
> >> stage a filibuster and force a super-majority.  :-)
> >>
> >> As it is, I will happily abide by any decision by the ARB, but I
> strongly
> >> urge that they make an explicit decision and announce it, rather than
> just
> >> do it by default or allow support to erode away.
> >>
> >> - Wes
> >>
> >>
> >> On Wed, Mar 28, 2012 at 7:51 AM, David Cole <david.cole at kitware.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> I'm not saying that applications like this shouldn't upgrade. On the
> >>> contrary, I think they should, and I think they should do it soon, and
> give
> >>> us feedback on the new layout of modular VTK, and on the rest of the
> changes
> >>> (legacy code removal), ... other changes?
> >>>
> >>> I am saying we're making a bunch of changes anyhow, and applications
> are
> >>> going to have to make lots of changes to adapt to them anyhow... and
> because
> >>> of this, now is the perfect opportunity to make breaking changes, so
> that
> >>> apps that need to adapt only need to do it once, and then we position
> VTK
> >>> for better things in the future. (Specifically, a C++ namespace and
> >>> potential for more modern wrapped languages.)
> >>>
> >>> Tcl wrapping, even if removed from VTK itself, could be done in a
> >>> separate project, from the outside, after the fact. That's how ActiViz
> works
> >>> for C# wrapping: which is another thing that will have to adapt to
> this new
> >>> VTK if it wants to survive. To the best of my knowledge, nobody has
> spent
> >>> any effort making sure ActiViz is still going to work flawlessly with
> the
> >>> new VTK. That'll be something for somebody's to do list after the dust
> >>> settles here.
> >>>
> >>> This is the one chance we'll have in the next decade to break backwards
> >>> compatibility: we should take it while we have it.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> David C.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Mar 28, 2012, at 6:09 AM, Karthik Krishnan
> >>> <karthik.krishnan at kitware.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> I agree with Wes. Again, not to be too vocal....
> >>>
> >>> I don't vote for  vtk3DWidget being renamed. Despite it being an old
> >>> generation widgets that we don't recommend folks derive from, but the
> fact
> >>> remains that there are a few widgets in VTK that derive from it. There
> are a
> >>> lot of widgets in Slicer (<20) and VolView (>10) that derive from it.
> These
> >>> are examples from just 2 applications.
> >>>
> >>> I don't support Tcl wrapping being dropped. There are still a lot of
> apps
> >>> under active development out there relying on VTK being wrappable from
> Tcl
> >>> (BioImageSuite, VolView, SCIRun, MIPS to name a few). It hasn't been
> long
> >>> since Slicer made the switch either.
> >>>
> >>> These are all large applications, with a large user base and important
> >>> customers of VTK. Don't you think a stand that: "If these applications
> want
> >>> to continue using VTK, they shouldn't upgrade" is a bit harsh.
> >>>
> >>> thx
> >>> --
> >>> karthik
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Wed, Mar 28, 2012 at 1:47 AM, David E DeMarle
> >>> <dave.demarle at kitware.com> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> And I _will_ add text to the download page to make it clear what that
> >>>> binary is because you are entirely right that it shouldn't be the
> >>>> first thing newbies try.
> >>>>
> >>>> David E DeMarle
> >>>> Kitware, Inc.
> >>>> R&D Engineer
> >>>> 21 Corporate Drive
> >>>> Clifton Park, NY 12065-8662
> >>>> Phone: 518-881-4909
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On Tue, Mar 27, 2012 at 4:12 PM, David E DeMarle
> >>>> <dave.demarle at kitware.com> wrote:
> >>>> > That is an old school 32bit windows tcl interpreter with the tcl
> >>>> > wrapped vtk libs preloaded. Use it by typing in vtk tcl scripts
> there,
> >>>> > or just pass tcl scripts as filenames to that executable to run them
> >>>> > without the shell. (Back when I was a young lad, and when Will and
> >>>> > Bill were still old men, that was the _easy_ way to learn VTK. Ah
> >>>> > those were the days, even if we did have to walk five miles in the
> >>>> > snow to get to grad school.)
> >>>> >
> >>>> > My plan for this release is to keep it the same as before. I hope to
> >>>> > find the time to make and post the vtkpython equivalent of that
> >>>> > executable for mac, linux and windows, but I am not going to hold up
> >>>> > the release release for them.
> >>>> >
> >>>> > For 6.0 we at least want the python exes, will probably drop the tcl
> >>>> > exe, and will try to make a proper SDK so that you don't need to
> >>>> > compile vtk to make c++ apps that use it.
> >>>> >
> >>>> > David E DeMarle
> >>>> > Kitware, Inc.
> >>>> > R&D Engineer
> >>>> > 21 Corporate Drive
> >>>> > Clifton Park, NY 12065-8662
> >>>> > Phone: 518-881-4909
> >>>> >
> >>>> >
> >>>> >
> >>>> > On Tue, Mar 27, 2012 at 3:45 PM, David Doria <daviddoria at gmail.com>
> >>>> > wrote:
> >>>> >> On a related note, every Windows user I have suggested VTK to has
> >>>> >> gone
> >>>> >> to this page:
> >>>> >> http://vtk.org/VTK/resources/software.html#latest2
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >> and been extremely confused about what they get with the "Windows
> >>>> >> (Installer) : vtk-5.8.0-win32-x86.exe". I just downloaded and
> >>>> >> installed it on a Windows machine, and when I run "VTK" from the
> >>>> >> start
> >>>> >> menu (the only thing that appears to be an option), I get a blank
> >>>> >> terminal window and a blank gray widget with no further
> >>>> >> instructions/explanation - indeed very confusing!
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >> My understanding is that this is some sort of TCL-only binary
> >>>> >> package?
> >>>> >> My suggestion would be to remove this from the download page
> >>>> >> entirely,
> >>>> >> or at least bury it so it is not the first thing you see and so it
> >>>> >> doesn't look like what you should download as a new user. It should
> >>>> >> be
> >>>> >> immediately clear that VTK is intended to be used as a library,
> not a
> >>>> >> standalone application.
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >> David
> >>>> >> _______________________________________________
> >>>> >> Powered by www.kitware.com
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >> Visit other Kitware open-source projects at
> >>>> >> http://www.kitware.com/opensource/opensource.html
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >> Follow this link to subscribe/unsubscribe:
> >>>> >> http://www.vtk.org/mailman/listinfo/vtk-developers
> >>>> >>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> Powered by www.kitware.com
> >>>>
> >>>> Visit other Kitware open-source projects at
> >>>> http://www.kitware.com/opensource/opensource.html
> >>>>
> >>>> Follow this link to subscribe/unsubscribe:
> >>>> http://www.vtk.org/mailman/listinfo/vtk-developers
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> --
> >>> karthik
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> Powered by www.kitware.com
> >>>
> >>> Visit other Kitware open-source projects at
> >>> http://www.kitware.com/opensource/opensource.html
> >>>
> >>> Follow this link to subscribe/unsubscribe:
> >>> http://www.vtk.org/mailman/listinfo/vtk-developers
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Wesley D. Turner, Ph.D.
> >> Kitware, Inc.
> >> Technical Leader
> >> 28 Corporate Drive
> >> Clifton Park, NY 12065-8662
> >> Phone: 518-881-4920
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Powered by www.kitware.com
> >>
> >> Visit other Kitware open-source projects at
> >> http://www.kitware.com/opensource/opensource.html
> >>
> >> Follow this link to subscribe/unsubscribe:
> >> http://www.vtk.org/mailman/listinfo/vtk-developers
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > William J. Schroeder, PhD
> > Kitware, Inc.
> > 28 Corporate Drive
> >
> > Clifton Park, NY 12065
> > will.schroeder at kitware.com
> > http://www.kitware.com
> > (518) 881-4902
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Powered by www.kitware.com
> >
> > Visit other Kitware open-source projects at
> > http://www.kitware.com/opensource/opensource.html
> >
> > Follow this link to subscribe/unsubscribe:
> > http://www.vtk.org/mailman/listinfo/vtk-developers
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Unpaid intern in BillsBasement at noware dot com
> _______________________________________________
> Powered by www.kitware.com
>
> Visit other Kitware open-source projects at
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>
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>

-- 
| Aashish Chaudhary
| R&D Engineer
| Kitware Inc.
| www.kitware.com
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