[ITK-dev] [ITK] Community versus Users Lists

Matt McCormick matt.mccormick at kitware.com
Sat Apr 2 21:27:09 EDT 2016 

Since ITK is a programming library that is used to build an
application (it is not an application,) everyone that uses ITK is a
developer. Since every developer's contribution is treated with
respect based on its merit, it is not desirable to separate people
based into two buckets based on personal connections.

Messages sent to insight-users are often related to ITK's internals
and how it is being developed. Recent threads on insight-users include

- How to fix builds against a third party library [1]
- How to add Python wrapping to a class inside ITK [2]
- How to fix a MinGW build error [3]

Understanding how ITK works, fixing bugs, and improving functionality
are often required when using ITK to address a problem.

It is also annoying to have three (or two) mailing lists to subscribe to.


I think improved preference-based questions that recognize ITK's
identity as a community developed open source library are:

1. If the ITK mailing list that I subscribed to changes in scope, then:
  a. Subscribe me to the new list
  b. Just remove me from the mailing list; I’ll subscribe manually to
the new list if I’m interested

2. The number of mailing lists I prefer is:
  a. 1
  b. 2
  c. 3

3. If there are two mailing lists, I prefer
  a. community and insight-users
  b. community and insight-developers
  c. insight-users and insight-developers

4. If there is one mailing list, I prefer
  a. community
  b. insight-users
  c. insight-developers


2 cents,
Matt

[1] http://public.kitware.com/pipermail/insight-users/2016-April/053317.html
[2] http://public.kitware.com/pipermail/insight-users/2016-April/053318.html
[3] http://public.kitware.com/pipermail/insight-users/2016-March/053190.html
[4] http://public.kitware.com/pipermail/insight-developers/2016-February/024782.html

On Sat, Apr 2, 2016 at 2:00 PM, Bill Lorensen <bill.lorensen at gmail.com> wrote:
> I guess I never really liked adding the community list. Seems like a
> user list and developer list covers everyone. VTK has one of each as
> does Slicer.
>
> On Sat, Apr 2, 2016 at 10:46 AM, Andras Lasso <lasso at queensu.ca> wrote:
>> Instead of asking people to decide between final solutions (which is
>> difficult for them and also doesn’t reveal actual preferences), please ask
>> what people need. If preferences are known then you can choose the best
>> fitting solution. For example good questions would be:
>>
>>
>>
>> 1.       I’m interested in discussions about how to use ITK:
>>
>> a.       Yes
>>
>> b.       Not that much, but I don’t mind getting emails about it
>>
>> c.       No, and I don’t want to see any emails about it
>>
>> 2.       I’m interested in discussions about ITK internals and how it is
>> being developed:
>>
>> a.       Yes
>>
>> b.       Not that much, but I don’t mind getting emails about it
>>
>> c.       No, and I don’t want to see any emails about it
>>
>> 3.       If the ITK mailing list that I subscribed to changes in scope,
>> then:
>>
>> a.       Subscribe me to the new list
>>
>> b.       Just remove me from the mailing list; I’ll subscribe manually to
>> the new list if I’m interested
>>
>>
>>
>> Andras
>>
>>
>>
>> From: Matt McCormick [mailto:matt.mccormick at kitware.com]
>> Sent: April 2, 2016 12:18 PM
>> To: Dženan Zukić <dzenanz at gmail.com>
>> Cc: Andras Lasso <lasso at queensu.ca>; community at itk.org;
>> insight-users at itk.org; ITK <insight-developers at itk.org>
>>
>>
>> Subject: Re: [ITK] Community versus Users Lists
>>
>>
>>
>> Here is a draft of the poll:
>>
>>
>> https://docs.google.com/forms/d/19BL8Gbb3Z0qdekys2i6keHPZSdkSOgbRg84mWOhEu8U/viewform
>>
>> Are there any suggestions on the wording? Missing options?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Matt
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Mar 29, 2016 at 12:16 PM, Matt McCormick
>> <matt.mccormick at kitware.com> wrote:
>>
>> Doodle polls are usually for scheduling times only (as far as I am
>> aware).  Perhaps a Google Form?
>>
>> M
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Mar 29, 2016 at 11:10 AM, Dženan Zukić <dzenanz at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hi everyone,
>>>
>>> since ITK is now in a mature phase, there is not a lot of traffic on
>>> ITK-Developers. I suppose the best would be to completely transition to
>>> just
>>> one list (community) which was created for that purpose. This would
>>> simplify
>>> things.
>>>
>>> But having a poll sounds like a good idea. Did you mean something like a
>>> Doodle poll, or somehow restrict the poll to just the members of the 3
>>> mailing lists?
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Dženan
>>>
>>> On Sat, Mar 26, 2016 at 11:22 PM, Matt McCormick
>>> <matt.mccormick at kitware.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> The current situation is not optimal, and it is difficult to keep all
>>>> parties involved happy.
>>>>
>>>> - Some people do not want to be bothered to subscribe to more than one
>>>> list, be it community, insight-users, or insight-developers.
>>>> - Some people on insight-developers do not want to be auto-subscribed
>>>> to a different list that has a different amount of traffic.
>>>> - There are a number of non-mailman interfaces to the mailing lists
>>>> that may not adapt to changes (Nabble, GMane, etc.), and some people
>>>> use these interfaces exclusively.
>>>>
>>>> Any change will result in some unhappy campers, but some change may
>>>> still be necessary to improve the status quo.
>>>>
>>>> Perhaps we should create a poll distributed to all lists to select a
>>>> way forward? Other constructive ideas?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Matt
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, Mar 26, 2016 at 10:01 PM, Andras Lasso <lasso at queensu.ca> wrote:
>>>> > I completely agree. Either a single community list or pair of
>>>> > devel&users
>>>> > makes sense.
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > My personal experience: I've signed up to the community list when it
>>>> > was
>>>> > created and unsubscribed from users. However, it was quite annoying
>>>> > that
>>>> > I
>>>> > received emails from users list but my responses were bounced. So, I
>>>> > had
>>>> > to
>>>> > sign up again to the users list. I still don’t know where to send new
>>>> > posts:
>>>> > users or community.
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > Andras
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > From: Michka Popoff
>>>> > Sent: March 26, 2016 14:24
>>>> > To: Matt McCormick
>>>> > Cc: community at itk.org
>>>> > Subject: Re: [ITK] Community versus Users Lists
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > Hi
>>>> >
>>>> > one thought about this. If I remember well, (but I may be mistaken),
>>>> > the community at itk.org address was introduced to replace the two others.
>>>> >
>>>> > Now, we have to follow 3 different mailing lists. The mail traffic is
>>>> > okay
>>>> > for me on
>>>> > these 3 lists, so having only one would be great.
>>>> > It would help people to know which one to use.
>>>> >
>>>> > Or we should go back to the old behaviour, with a user/developer list.
>>>> > But I think developers want also to know what they users are doing,
>>>> > so they are often registered on the two (/three) anyway.
>>>> >
>>>> > Michka
>>>> >
>>>> >> On 17 Mar 2016, at 16:42, Matt McCormick <matt.mccormick at kitware.com>
>>>> >> wrote:
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Hi Toby,
>>>> >>
>>>> >> To post to the insight-users or insight-developers list, your email
>>>> >> account currently needs to be subscribed there, too.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Matt
>>>> >>
>>>> >> On Thu, Mar 17, 2016 at 5:47 AM, Wood, Tobias <tobias.wood at kcl.ac.uk>
>>>> >> wrote:
>>>> >>> Hello,
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Apologies for a newbie question but this has been bugging me for a
>>>> >>> while.
>>>> >>> I am subscribed to the community at itk.org mailing list. As noted on
>>>> >>> the
>>>> >>> sign-up page, this also receives all the mail from insight-users (and
>>>> >>> insight-developers). When I try to reply to a message from one of
>>>> >>> these
>>>> >>> lists in my mail client, the reply-to address is set to
>>>> >>> insight-users.
>>>> >>> If I
>>>> >>> send the message as is, I get a failure message telling me I am not
>>>> >>> subscribed to the mailing list (which is correct).
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> How should I be responding to such e-mail threads? Will a reply to
>>>> >>> community at itk.org forward the message on to insight-users? Or should
>>>> >>> I
>>>> >>> be
>>>> >>> subscribing to all 3 mailing lists (seems suboptimal as I assume I
>>>> >>> will get
>>>> >>> multiple copies of messages).
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Thanks,
>>>> >>> Toby
>>>> >>> _______________________________________________
>>>> >>> Community mailing list
>>>> >>> Community at itk.org
>>>> >>> http://public.kitware.com/mailman/listinfo/community
>>>> >> _______________________________________________
>>>> >> Community mailing list
>>>> >> Community at itk.org
>>>> >> http://public.kitware.com/mailman/listinfo/community
>>>> >
>>>> > _______________________________________________
>>>> > Community mailing list
>>>> > Community at itk.org
>>>> > http://public.kitware.com/mailman/listinfo/community
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Community mailing list
>>>> Community at itk.org
>>>> http://public.kitware.com/mailman/listinfo/community
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Community mailing list
>> Community at itk.org
>> http://public.kitware.com/mailman/listinfo/community
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Unpaid intern in BillsBasement at noware dot com

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