[Paraview] Gradient filter: boundary effects

Tue Sep 27 09:51:29 EDT 2016

Hi Ken,

if you want to have a look – here is a simple test file. At  the bottom side, there are 4 adjacent cells having grad(y)~7900 from computederivatives, but all 3 nodes on the bottom side have grad(y) ~ 5300 from celldatatopointdata.

Thanks,

Matthias

Von: Moreland, Kenneth [mailto:kmorel at sandia.gov]
Gesendet: Dienstag, 27. September 2016 15:40
An: Zenker, Dr. Matthias
Cc: paraview at paraview.org
Betreff: Re: [Paraview] Gradient filter: boundary effects

Matthias,

If values are being pulled from 7900 units down to 5300 units, there must be some neighbor with lower values. Why that is happening for you I cannot say without looking at your data. Perhaps on the boundary there are some malformed or 2D cells with invalid gradients.

-Ken

From: "Zenker, Dr. Matthias" <Matthias.Zenker at erbe-med.com<mailto:Matthias.Zenker at erbe-med.com>>
Date: Tuesday, September 27, 2016 at 9:06 AM
To: "Moreland, Kenneth" <kmorel at sandia.gov<mailto:kmorel at sandia.gov>>
Cc: "paraview at paraview.org<mailto:paraview at paraview.org>" <paraview at paraview.org<mailto:paraview at paraview.org>>
Subject: [EXTERNAL] AW: [Paraview] Gradient filter: boundary effects

Hi Ken,

what I don’t understand is that the cell gradients are correct, but their average at the border is not. (Example: All cell gradients adjacent to one node at the border have approx. 7900 units in y direction, the node has approx. 5300)
So it seems I cannot determine the gradient in the postprocessing step, but have to calculate it in the FEM solver (where I do get correct results now – I didn’t initially, which was the reason why I tried it with ParaView).

Thank you anyway, I have learned new bits of ParaView again (which is great software BTW)!

Have a nice holiday (if I interpret your autoreply correctly)!

Matthias

Von: Moreland, Kenneth [mailto:kmorel at sandia.gov]
Gesendet: Dienstag, 27. September 2016 14:36
An: Zenker, Dr. Matthias; paraview at paraview.org<mailto:paraview at paraview.org>
Betreff: Re: [Paraview] Gradient filter: boundary effects

You could run the results through the point to cell filter, but that would give you the same answer as the gradient of unstructured dataset filter with the faster approximation option on.

-Ken

From: "Zenker, Dr. Matthias" <Matthias.Zenker at erbe-med.com<mailto:Matthias.Zenker at erbe-med.com>>
Date: Tuesday, September 27, 2016 at 8:28 AM
To: "Moreland, Kenneth" <kmorel at sandia.gov<mailto:kmorel at sandia.gov>>, "paraview at paraview.org<mailto:paraview at paraview.org>" <paraview at paraview.org<mailto:paraview at paraview.org>>
Subject: [EXTERNAL] AW: [Paraview] Gradient filter: boundary effects

Hi Kenneth,

thank you for the quick answer!
So it seems not that trivial to calculate an electrical field between a rod and a plane given the potential…
The compute derivatives filter does not give me the problem at the boundary indeed. Instead it gives a value per cell, not per node, which does not look nice.
Is there a friendly filter or switch which would give me the smoothed surface representation back?

Thanks,

Matthias

Von: Moreland, Kenneth [mailto:kmorel at sandia.gov]
Gesendet: Dienstag, 27. September 2016 14:14
An: Zenker, Dr. Matthias; paraview at paraview.org<mailto:paraview at paraview.org>
Betreff: Re: [Paraview] Gradient filter: boundary effects

Matthias,

The gradient is estimated with finite differences. Thus, it is not wholly unexpected that there could be differences at the boundaries. However, the algorithm does not assume zero for adjacent cells at the boundaries.

The way the unstructured gradient filter works is that it computes the local gradient in each cell at each of the cell’s points. Then for every point it averages the gradient from all incident cells at that point. (If you have the Faster Approximation option on, then the filter only computes one gradient per cell in the center and averages those. Faster, but more artifacts, particularly at the edges.)

If this averaging is causing you an issue, you might try the Compute Derivatives filter. This does a wholly local operation within each cell, so you should not see any artifacts (unless the field itself has artifacts at the boundaries).

-Ken

From: ParaView <paraview-bounces at paraview.org<mailto:paraview-bounces at paraview.org>> on behalf of "Zenker, Dr. Matthias" <Matthias.Zenker at erbe-med.com<mailto:Matthias.Zenker at erbe-med.com>>
Date: Tuesday, September 27, 2016 at 5:45 AM
To: "paraview at paraview.org<mailto:paraview at paraview.org>" <paraview at paraview.org<mailto:paraview at paraview.org>>
Subject: [EXTERNAL] [Paraview] Gradient filter: boundary effects

Hi,

when I use the gradient filter (unstructured dataset), I observe edge effects which are IMO unphysical. For the nodes on the outer boundary of my domain, the gradient magnitude is smaller than I would expect. The behavior is like the filter tries to use the adjacent nodes to calculate the gradient, and since there are none  outside the domain, it assumes zero and finds a lower result.
If so, I would consider this a bug – is there a fix or workaround?

Thanks,

Matthias
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