[Insight-users] another question on FEM Registration

wavelethe at pku.org.cn wavelethe at pku.org.cn
Sat, 20 Mar 2004 22:55:26 +0800 (CST)


I am also paying attention on this subject.
and i am a graduate student on BME, after getting the bachelor degree of electronic science.
could you give me more advice? i just have one and a more little years before my graduation. I don't think i have mastered enough maths knowledge, such as FEM.
thx a lot for your kind help!

by the way, i test the deformableregistration1 using FiniteElementRegistrationParameters2.txt, but i don't know exactly what the meaning of the number for the landmark in the txt file.
i think the datas of each line are the corresponding points
for the first landmark, 2 means 2 dimensions, and the points are (3.0, 5,0) and (7.5, 7.6), (i am not sure the values are by pixel or by percent), and the weight value is 0.1, is it right?
<LoadLandmark>
% This is the first landmark
2 3.0 5.0 2 7.5 7.6 0.1 
<LoadLandmark>
% This is the second landmark
2 23.0 35.0 2 27.5 37.6 0.1
<END>

> -----Original Message-----
> 发件人: Luis Ibanez <luis.ibanez at kitware.com>
> 日期: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 08:14:32 -0500
> 收件人: b gises <magicgises at yahoo.com>
> 抄送: "Gee, James" <GeeJames at uphs.upenn.edu>, insight-users at itk.org
> 主题: Re: [Insight-users] another question on FEM Registration
> 
> Hi Janiv,
> 
> After looking at the scope of your project
> it seems that you are underestimating the
> effort required for achieving these goals.
> 
> If you are still getting familiar with
> programming, it is unlikely that you will
> be able to finish all these tasks in two
> months. This workload could easily be a PhD
> dissertation.
> 
> You may want to reconsider the scope of your
> project and start by solving a sub-set of the
> tasks.
> 
> 
>    Regards,
> 
> 
> 
>       Luis
> 
> 
> 
> --------------
> b gises wrote:
> > Hi Luis and James,
> >  
> > Thanks for the detailed explanation on this FEM registration filter. 
> > Well, i'm totally new to itk and only a beginner in programming (the 
> > worst thing is that i've only a couple of months to do this), so i'm 
> > looking into ways which i can reach the objective of the project: 1) 
> > segment the right ventricle  2) mesh the model (prefably using the 
> > tagged points as the nodes)  3) track the displacement of the tagged 
> > points  4) the images were taken in 2 perpendicular planes (short and 
> > long axis), so i need a way to get the 3D displacement  5) Visualize the 
> > model and run an animation of the model's deformation
> > 6) if possible create a GUI for this problem.
> >  
> > Can you briefly state any ways or examples which will be useful for me 
> > to handle this problem.( i've built ITK, ITK Applications, VTK, FLTK)
> >  
> > Thanks again and enjoy the weekend
> > Regards
> > janiv
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > */"Gee, James" <GeeJames at uphs.upenn.edu>/* wrote:
> > 
> >     just to follow up on luis's useful comments.  in FEM, unlike finite
> >     difference methods, the solution, although obtained at the mesh
> >     nodes, is actually based on the entire (image) domain.  it's
> >     intuitive to think of applying forces at mesh nodes but this doesn't
> >     happen in the naive way we might think; instead, the solution at the
> >     node embodies information from all the elements that contain this
> >     node.  this fundamentally distinguishes the approach from finite
> >     difference techniques which is what is used to implement the Demons
> >     non-rigid image registration capability that is also available in
> >     ITK (this is also described in the upcoming Theory book).
> > 
> >     about physical models, this is in part related to the
> >     deformation/penalty energy term in the registration formulation. 
> >     folks do indeed attempt to create physically plausible models for
> >     registration/tracking/deformation modeling, and if you're interested
> >     in this direction, then the underlying FEM framework of the
> >     registration filter will be convenient for you.  the current filter
> >     available in the repository implements various linear, so-called
> >     small deformation models (this does NOT mean it will only
> >     accommodate small image differences!).  there is a new version that
> >     includes large-deformation models, which is reported in a submitted
> >     manuscript and should be checked in relatively soon.
> > 
> >     a word of caution: to fully exploit the capabilities of the
> >     itkfemregistration filter requires, unfortunately, some significant
> >     background on the user's part (in non-rigid registration, numerical
> >     analysis, even non-linear continuum mechanics).
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >      > -----Original Message-----
> >      > From: Luis Ibanez [mailto:luis.ibanez at kitware.com]
> >      > Sent: Friday, March 19, 2004 2:42 AM
> >      > To: b gises
> >      > Cc: insight-users at itk.org
> >      > Subject: Re: [Insight-users] another question on FEM Registration
> >      >
> >      >
> >      >
> >      > Hi Janiv,
> >      >
> >      > The FEM-Based registration method is intended to be used
> >      > for computing a deformation field over an image with the
> >      > purpose of registering this image against another one.
> >      >
> >      > You could use this method for performing segmentation
> >      > if you a lready had a segmented image and attempt to
> >      > register it versus a new input image. This methodology
> >      > is also known as 'atlas-based segmentation'.
> >      >
> >      > The mesh that the FEM method creates can have any shape,
> >      > however by default, a regular grid is created. No meshing
> >      > algorithms are provided in ITK. Meshing is in itself a hard
> >      > enough problem.
> >      >
> >      > Once you manage to create your mesh, what the FEM method
> >      > does  is to compute forces on the mesh nodes. This forces
> >      > are computed from the local displacement that you will have
> >      > to apply to a small image region surrounding the node in
> >      > order to match the the intensities of the other image.
> >      >
> >      >  From this local forces, and the assumption that the mesh is
> >      > modeling a elastic body, the FEM method computes local
> >      > displacements in all the mesh nodes.  The displacements are
> >      > then interpolated inside the mesh cells.
> >      >
> >      > The nodes in the FEM mesh are not used for segmentation, only
> >      > for registration. They original positions are located with
> >      > respect to the fixed image coordinate system.
> >      >
> >      > You will find a detailed description of this method in the
> >      > Tutorial presentations:
> >      >
> >      >       http://www.itk.org/HTML/Tutorials.htm
> >      >
> >      > in particular at
> >      >
> >      >   
> >      >
> >     http://www.itk.org/CourseWare/Training/NonRigidRegistrationMethods.pdf
> >      >
> >      > you may find useful to also look at
> >      >
> >      >   
> >      >
> >     http://www.itk.org/CourseWare/Training/RegistrationMethodsOverview.pdf
> >      >
> >      >
> >      > and of course at the SoftwareGuide
> >      >
> >      >     http://www.itk.org/ItkSoftwareGuide.pdf
> >      >
> >      >
> >      >
> >      > If you manage to segment your cardiac image, you could
> >      > create a Mesh from the segmentation and use it for
> >      > representing the elastic body that is going to be deformed
> >      > in order to match the other image.
> >      >
> >      > Note that this FEM Mesh doesn't have any real physical
> >      > relationship with the cardiac tissue. That is, even if the
> >      > Mesh is representing a physical model, this model is totally
> >      > unrelated to the physical properties of the anatomic
> >      > structures present in your image.
> >      >
> >      >
> >      >
> >      >   Regards,
> >      >
> >      >
> >      >
> >      >      Luis
> >      >
> >      >
> >      >
> >      > ---------------------------
> >      > b gises wrote:
> >      >
> >      > > hi,
> >      > > 
> >      > > This is another mail from the previous one on fem
> >      > registration filter.
> >      > > i have 10 time frames of tagged cardiac images, where i have to
> >      > > extract a mesh of the right ventricle. Is it acceptable
> >      > that i use the
> >      > > itkfemregistration filter for the segmentation of th e right
> >      > ventricle.
> >      > > Does this filter perform registration of images on the
> >     user-defined
> >      > > nodes only, or on the whole image. I'm not sure if the
> >     user-defined
> >      > > nodes are for the segmentation and extraction of mesh, or for the
> >      > > registration, or for both. i'm wondering if the nodes are
> >      > placed just
> >      > > on the fixed image, or on both the fixed and moving image. If the
> >      > > nodes have to be place on both images, then i suppose the nodes
> >     are
> >      > > used to extract the meshes for both images, and used to
> >      > register the
> >      > > nodes at time t0 to the nodes at time t1.......Can anyone please
> >      > > explain to me about this filter, and if i can use this to create a
> >      > > smooth meshed model of the right ventricle, and yet get the
> >      > > displacement of the tagged points. Thank you very much
> >      > > 
> >      > > regards
> >      > > janiv
> >      > >
> >      >
> >      >
> >      >
> >      > _______________________________________________
> >      > Insight-users mailing list
> >      > Insight-users at itk.org
> >      > http://www.itk.org/mailman/listinfo/insight-> users
> >      >
> > 
> > Hi Luis and James,
> >  
> > Thanks for the detailed explanation on this FEM registration filter. 
> > Well, i'm totally new to itk and only a beginner in programming (the 
> > worst thing is that i've only a couple of months to do this), so i'm 
> > looking into ways which i can reach the objective of the project: 1) 
> > segment the right ventricle  2) mesh the model (prefably using the 
> > tagged points as the nodes)  3) track the displacement of the tagged 
> > points  4) the images were taken in 2 perpendicular planes (short and 
> > long axis), so i need a way to get the 3D displacement  5) Visualize the 
> > model and run an animation of the model's deformation
> > 6) if possible create a GUI for this problem.
> >  
> > Can you briefly state any ways or examples which will be useful for me 
> > to handle this problem.( i've built ITK, ITK Applications, VTK, FLTK)
> >  
> > Thanks again and enjoy the weekend
> > Regards
> > janiv
> > 
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > *Yahoo! Mail* <http://us.rd.yahoo.com/mailtag_us/*http://mail.yahoo.com> 
> > - More reliable, more storage, less spam
> > 
> 
> 
> 
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