+1 on seeking input.<div><br></div><div>The danger of course, is that people who are merrily using tcl without problems may not be subscribed to the mailing lists and we may not find out until after we make the change and everything breaks. Still I think that is the correct way to go and the best that we can do.<div>
<br></div><div>- Wes<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Mar 28, 2012 at 12:04 PM, Aashish Chaudhary <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:aashish.chaudhary@kitware.com">aashish.chaudhary@kitware.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">In another email to Wes, I suggested the same. I have cc'd vtkuser's mailing list as well ( to provide background on the topic, may be better to start a new thread in the vtkusers mailing list). <div class="HOEnZb">
<div class="h5"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">
On Wed, Mar 28, 2012 at 11:55 AM, Bill Lorensen <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:bill.lorensen@gmail.com" target="_blank">bill.lorensen@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">I agree with Will. We should ask the community about the impact of a<br>
VTK without tcl.<br>
<div><div><br>
On Wed, Mar 28, 2012 at 8:04 AM, Will Schroeder<br>
<<a href="mailto:will.schroeder@kitware.com" target="_blank">will.schroeder@kitware.com</a>> wrote:<br>
> This may be a bigger issue than just the ARB, I'm wondering if we should ask<br>
> the question across the broader community, and/or create an explicit<br>
> transition plan.<br>
> W<br>
><br>
><br>
> On Wed, Mar 28, 2012 at 9:53 AM, Wes Turner <<a href="mailto:wes.turner@kitware.com" target="_blank">wes.turner@kitware.com</a>> wrote:<br>
>><br>
>> Changing a few interfaces is manageable. Removing support for the entire<br>
>> GUI system is much more catastrophic. If this were a democracy I would<br>
>> stage a filibuster and force a super-majority. :-)<br>
>><br>
>> As it is, I will happily abide by any decision by the ARB, but I strongly<br>
>> urge that they make an explicit decision and announce it, rather than just<br>
>> do it by default or allow support to erode away.<br>
>><br>
>> - Wes<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> On Wed, Mar 28, 2012 at 7:51 AM, David Cole <<a href="mailto:david.cole@kitware.com" target="_blank">david.cole@kitware.com</a>><br>
>> wrote:<br>
>>><br>
>>> I'm not saying that applications like this shouldn't upgrade. On the<br>
>>> contrary, I think they should, and I think they should do it soon, and give<br>
>>> us feedback on the new layout of modular VTK, and on the rest of the changes<br>
>>> (legacy code removal), ... other changes?<br>
>>><br>
>>> I am saying we're making a bunch of changes anyhow, and applications are<br>
>>> going to have to make lots of changes to adapt to them anyhow... and because<br>
>>> of this, now is the perfect opportunity to make breaking changes, so that<br>
>>> apps that need to adapt only need to do it once, and then we position VTK<br>
>>> for better things in the future. (Specifically, a C++ namespace and<br>
>>> potential for more modern wrapped languages.)<br>
>>><br>
>>> Tcl wrapping, even if removed from VTK itself, could be done in a<br>
>>> separate project, from the outside, after the fact. That's how ActiViz works<br>
>>> for C# wrapping: which is another thing that will have to adapt to this new<br>
>>> VTK if it wants to survive. To the best of my knowledge, nobody has spent<br>
>>> any effort making sure ActiViz is still going to work flawlessly with the<br>
>>> new VTK. That'll be something for somebody's to do list after the dust<br>
>>> settles here.<br>
>>><br>
>>> This is the one chance we'll have in the next decade to break backwards<br>
>>> compatibility: we should take it while we have it.<br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>> David C.<br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>> On Mar 28, 2012, at 6:09 AM, Karthik Krishnan<br>
>>> <<a href="mailto:karthik.krishnan@kitware.com" target="_blank">karthik.krishnan@kitware.com</a>> wrote:<br>
>>><br>
>>> I agree with Wes. Again, not to be too vocal....<br>
>>><br>
>>> I don't vote for vtk3DWidget being renamed. Despite it being an old<br>
>>> generation widgets that we don't recommend folks derive from, but the fact<br>
>>> remains that there are a few widgets in VTK that derive from it. There are a<br>
>>> lot of widgets in Slicer (<20) and VolView (>10) that derive from it. These<br>
>>> are examples from just 2 applications.<br>
>>><br>
>>> I don't support Tcl wrapping being dropped. There are still a lot of apps<br>
>>> under active development out there relying on VTK being wrappable from Tcl<br>
>>> (BioImageSuite, VolView, SCIRun, MIPS to name a few). It hasn't been long<br>
>>> since Slicer made the switch either.<br>
>>><br>
>>> These are all large applications, with a large user base and important<br>
>>> customers of VTK. Don't you think a stand that: "If these applications want<br>
>>> to continue using VTK, they shouldn't upgrade" is a bit harsh.<br>
>>><br>
>>> thx<br>
>>> --<br>
>>> karthik<br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>> On Wed, Mar 28, 2012 at 1:47 AM, David E DeMarle<br>
>>> <<a href="mailto:dave.demarle@kitware.com" target="_blank">dave.demarle@kitware.com</a>> wrote:<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> And I _will_ add text to the download page to make it clear what that<br>
>>>> binary is because you are entirely right that it shouldn't be the<br>
>>>> first thing newbies try.<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> David E DeMarle<br>
>>>> Kitware, Inc.<br>
>>>> R&D Engineer<br>
>>>> 21 Corporate Drive<br>
>>>> Clifton Park, NY 12065-8662<br>
>>>> Phone: <a href="tel:518-881-4909" value="+15188814909" target="_blank">518-881-4909</a><br>
>>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>> On Tue, Mar 27, 2012 at 4:12 PM, David E DeMarle<br>
>>>> <<a href="mailto:dave.demarle@kitware.com" target="_blank">dave.demarle@kitware.com</a>> wrote:<br>
>>>> > That is an old school 32bit windows tcl interpreter with the tcl<br>
>>>> > wrapped vtk libs preloaded. Use it by typing in vtk tcl scripts there,<br>
>>>> > or just pass tcl scripts as filenames to that executable to run them<br>
>>>> > without the shell. (Back when I was a young lad, and when Will and<br>
>>>> > Bill were still old men, that was the _easy_ way to learn VTK. Ah<br>
>>>> > those were the days, even if we did have to walk five miles in the<br>
>>>> > snow to get to grad school.)<br>
>>>> ><br>
>>>> > My plan for this release is to keep it the same as before. I hope to<br>
>>>> > find the time to make and post the vtkpython equivalent of that<br>
>>>> > executable for mac, linux and windows, but I am not going to hold up<br>
>>>> > the release release for them.<br>
>>>> ><br>
>>>> > For 6.0 we at least want the python exes, will probably drop the tcl<br>
>>>> > exe, and will try to make a proper SDK so that you don't need to<br>
>>>> > compile vtk to make c++ apps that use it.<br>
>>>> ><br>
>>>> > David E DeMarle<br>
>>>> > Kitware, Inc.<br>
>>>> > R&D Engineer<br>
>>>> > 21 Corporate Drive<br>
>>>> > Clifton Park, NY 12065-8662<br>
>>>> > Phone: <a href="tel:518-881-4909" value="+15188814909" target="_blank">518-881-4909</a><br>
>>>> ><br>
>>>> ><br>
>>>> ><br>
>>>> > On Tue, Mar 27, 2012 at 3:45 PM, David Doria <<a href="mailto:daviddoria@gmail.com" target="_blank">daviddoria@gmail.com</a>><br>
>>>> > wrote:<br>
>>>> >> On a related note, every Windows user I have suggested VTK to has<br>
>>>> >> gone<br>
>>>> >> to this page:<br>
>>>> >> <a href="http://vtk.org/VTK/resources/software.html#latest2" target="_blank">http://vtk.org/VTK/resources/software.html#latest2</a><br>
>>>> >><br>
>>>> >> and been extremely confused about what they get with the "Windows<br>
>>>> >> (Installer) : vtk-5.8.0-win32-x86.exe". I just downloaded and<br>
>>>> >> installed it on a Windows machine, and when I run "VTK" from the<br>
>>>> >> start<br>
>>>> >> menu (the only thing that appears to be an option), I get a blank<br>
>>>> >> terminal window and a blank gray widget with no further<br>
>>>> >> instructions/explanation - indeed very confusing!<br>
>>>> >><br>
>>>> >> My understanding is that this is some sort of TCL-only binary<br>
>>>> >> package?<br>
>>>> >> My suggestion would be to remove this from the download page<br>
>>>> >> entirely,<br>
>>>> >> or at least bury it so it is not the first thing you see and so it<br>
>>>> >> doesn't look like what you should download as a new user. It should<br>
>>>> >> be<br>
>>>> >> immediately clear that VTK is intended to be used as a library, not a<br>
>>>> >> standalone application.<br>
>>>> >><br>
>>>> >> David<br>
>>>> >> _______________________________________________<br>
>>>> >> Powered by <a href="http://www.kitware.com" target="_blank">www.kitware.com</a><br>
>>>> >><br>
>>>> >> Visit other Kitware open-source projects at<br>
>>>> >> <a href="http://www.kitware.com/opensource/opensource.html" target="_blank">http://www.kitware.com/opensource/opensource.html</a><br>
>>>> >><br>
>>>> >> Follow this link to subscribe/unsubscribe:<br>
>>>> >> <a href="http://www.vtk.org/mailman/listinfo/vtk-developers" target="_blank">http://www.vtk.org/mailman/listinfo/vtk-developers</a><br>
>>>> >><br>
>>>> _______________________________________________<br>
>>>> Powered by <a href="http://www.kitware.com" target="_blank">www.kitware.com</a><br>
>>>><br>
>>>> Visit other Kitware open-source projects at<br>
>>>> <a href="http://www.kitware.com/opensource/opensource.html" target="_blank">http://www.kitware.com/opensource/opensource.html</a><br>
>>>><br>
>>>> Follow this link to subscribe/unsubscribe:<br>
>>>> <a href="http://www.vtk.org/mailman/listinfo/vtk-developers" target="_blank">http://www.vtk.org/mailman/listinfo/vtk-developers</a><br>
>>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>> --<br>
>>> --<br>
>>> karthik<br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>> _______________________________________________<br>
>>> Powered by <a href="http://www.kitware.com" target="_blank">www.kitware.com</a><br>
>>><br>
>>> Visit other Kitware open-source projects at<br>
>>> <a href="http://www.kitware.com/opensource/opensource.html" target="_blank">http://www.kitware.com/opensource/opensource.html</a><br>
>>><br>
>>> Follow this link to subscribe/unsubscribe:<br>
>>> <a href="http://www.vtk.org/mailman/listinfo/vtk-developers" target="_blank">http://www.vtk.org/mailman/listinfo/vtk-developers</a><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> --<br>
>> Wesley D. Turner, Ph.D.<br>
>> Kitware, Inc.<br>
>> Technical Leader<br>
>> 28 Corporate Drive<br>
>> Clifton Park, NY 12065-8662<br>
>> Phone: <a href="tel:518-881-4920" value="+15188814920" target="_blank">518-881-4920</a><br>
>><br>
>> _______________________________________________<br>
>> Powered by <a href="http://www.kitware.com" target="_blank">www.kitware.com</a><br>
>><br>
>> Visit other Kitware open-source projects at<br>
>> <a href="http://www.kitware.com/opensource/opensource.html" target="_blank">http://www.kitware.com/opensource/opensource.html</a><br>
>><br>
>> Follow this link to subscribe/unsubscribe:<br>
>> <a href="http://www.vtk.org/mailman/listinfo/vtk-developers" target="_blank">http://www.vtk.org/mailman/listinfo/vtk-developers</a><br>
>><br>
>><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> --<br>
> William J. Schroeder, PhD<br>
> Kitware, Inc.<br>
> 28 Corporate Drive<br>
><br>
> Clifton Park, NY 12065<br>
> <a href="mailto:will.schroeder@kitware.com" target="_blank">will.schroeder@kitware.com</a><br>
> <a href="http://www.kitware.com" target="_blank">http://www.kitware.com</a><br>
> <a href="tel:%28518%29%20881-4902" value="+15188814902" target="_blank">(518) 881-4902</a><br>
><br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> Powered by <a href="http://www.kitware.com" target="_blank">www.kitware.com</a><br>
><br>
> Visit other Kitware open-source projects at<br>
> <a href="http://www.kitware.com/opensource/opensource.html" target="_blank">http://www.kitware.com/opensource/opensource.html</a><br>
><br>
> Follow this link to subscribe/unsubscribe:<br>
> <a href="http://www.vtk.org/mailman/listinfo/vtk-developers" target="_blank">http://www.vtk.org/mailman/listinfo/vtk-developers</a><br>
><br>
><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
--<br>
</div></div>Unpaid intern in BillsBasement at noware dot com<br>
<div><div>_______________________________________________<br>
Powered by <a href="http://www.kitware.com" target="_blank">www.kitware.com</a><br>
<br>
Visit other Kitware open-source projects at <a href="http://www.kitware.com/opensource/opensource.html" target="_blank">http://www.kitware.com/opensource/opensource.html</a><br>
<br>
Follow this link to subscribe/unsubscribe:<br>
<a href="http://www.vtk.org/mailman/listinfo/vtk-developers" target="_blank">http://www.vtk.org/mailman/listinfo/vtk-developers</a><br>
<br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br></div></div><div class="HOEnZb"><div class="h5">| Aashish Chaudhary <br>| R&D Engineer <br>| Kitware Inc. <br>| <a href="http://www.kitware.com" target="_blank">www.kitware.com</a> <br>
</div></div><br>_______________________________________________<br>
Powered by <a href="http://www.kitware.com" target="_blank">www.kitware.com</a><br>
<br>
Visit other Kitware open-source projects at <a href="http://www.kitware.com/opensource/opensource.html" target="_blank">http://www.kitware.com/opensource/opensource.html</a><br>
<br>
Please keep messages on-topic and check the VTK FAQ at: <a href="http://www.vtk.org/Wiki/VTK_FAQ" target="_blank">http://www.vtk.org/Wiki/VTK_FAQ</a><br>
<br>
Follow this link to subscribe/unsubscribe:<br>
<a href="http://www.vtk.org/mailman/listinfo/vtkusers" target="_blank">http://www.vtk.org/mailman/listinfo/vtkusers</a><br>
<br></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br>Wesley D. Turner, Ph.D.<br>Kitware, Inc.<br>Technical Leader<br>28 Corporate Drive<br>Clifton Park, NY 12065-8662<br>Phone: 518-881-4920<br>
</div></div>